20.11.2011 - 09:41
Scotchmen tossing their cabers less and less
culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-east-fife/highland_gam=
es_in_losing_battle_for_survival_1_1975526
Highland Games in losing battle for survival
Highland Games are in steep decline
By John Ross
Published on Sunday 20 November 2011 00:00
WITH their colourful displays of strength, athleticism, piping and
dancing, Highland Games are still popular tourist attractions and
community focal points across Scotland.
But the first national study into the culturally-rich events has found
the games are closing down at an increasing rate and that organisers
are battling for their survival.
A three-year study entitled Scotland2s Highland Games: Challenges in
an Ageing World, found the number of events has declined from more
than 200 in the 1940s to just 90 today.
And the rate of closure has accelerated with 25 events 6 including the
Caithness, Beauly, Dingwall, Elgin and Stirling Highland Games 6
ceasing to exist in the past decade.
20.11.2011 - 10:07
On Nov 20, 8:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-east-fife/highla...
Highland Games in losing battle for survival
Highland Games are in steep decline
0By John Ross
Published on Sunday 20 November 2011 00:00
WITH their colourful displays of strength, athleticism, piping and
dancing, Highland Games are still popular tourist attractions and
community focal points across Scotland.
But the first national study into the culturally-rich events has found
the games are closing down at an increasing rate and that organisers
are battling for their survival.
A three-year study entitled Scotland2s Highland Games: Challenges in
an Ageing World, found the number of events has declined from more
than 200 in the 1940s to just 90 today.
And the rate of closure has accelerated with 25 events 6 including the
Caithness, Beauly, Dingwall, Elgin and Stirling Highland Games 6
ceasing to exist in the past decade.
The curse of deep fried Sunday roast dinners and 100% alcoholic
bevvies has finally caught up with the (caber) tossers.
I expect they will re-invent something similar but on ice, as they
usually do, in order that they can be world champions at it.
Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-east-fife/highla...
Highland Games in losing battle for survival
Highland Games are in steep decline
0By John Ross
Published on Sunday 20 November 2011 00:00
WITH their colourful displays of strength, athleticism, piping and
dancing, Highland Games are still popular tourist attractions and
community focal points across Scotland.
But the first national study into the culturally-rich events has found
the games are closing down at an increasing rate and that organisers
are battling for their survival.
A three-year study entitled Scotland2s Highland Games: Challenges in
an Ageing World, found the number of events has declined from more
than 200 in the 1940s to just 90 today.
And the rate of closure has accelerated with 25 events 6 including the
Caithness, Beauly, Dingwall, Elgin and Stirling Highland Games 6
ceasing to exist in the past decade.
The curse of deep fried Sunday roast dinners and 100% alcoholic
bevvies has finally caught up with the (caber) tossers.
I expect they will re-invent something similar but on ice, as they
usually do, in order that they can be world champions at it.
20.11.2011 - 11:24
RH <anywhere156@gmail.com> wrote in
news:edc01a9a-0646-4d2c-bce9-8ef886e3792a@4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com:
Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
Presumably prancing around in a smock and waving bells and hankies around
is going from strength to strength, along with English tennis success.
news:edc01a9a-0646-4d2c-bce9-8ef886e3792a@4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com:
Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
Presumably prancing around in a smock and waving bells and hankies around
is going from strength to strength, along with English tennis success.
20.11.2011 - 11:59
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 00:41:28 -0800 (PST), RH <anywhere156@gmail.com>
wrote:
Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-east-fife/highland_games_in_losing_battle_for_survival_1_1975526
Highland Games in losing battle for survival
Highland Games are in steep decline
By John Ross
Published on Sunday 20 November 2011 00:00
WITH their colourful displays of strength, athleticism, piping and
dancing, Highland Games are still popular tourist attractions and
community focal points across Scotland.
But the first national study into the culturally-rich events has found
the games are closing down at an increasing rate and that organisers
are battling for their survival.
A three-year study entitled Scotlands Highland Games: Challenges in
an Ageing World, found the number of events has declined from more
than 200 in the 1940s to just 90 today.
And the rate of closure has accelerated with 25 events including the
Caithness, Beauly, Dingwall, Elgin and Stirling Highland Games
ceasing to exist in the past decade.
HAppening all over the UK
You can probably ascribe that to the increasing costs in compulsory
insurance and the need for expensive permits from local authorities
plus the protection racket of the local police who will object unless
they get a cut of the proceeds
wrote:
Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-east-fife/highland_games_in_losing_battle_for_survival_1_1975526
Highland Games in losing battle for survival
Highland Games are in steep decline
By John Ross
Published on Sunday 20 November 2011 00:00
WITH their colourful displays of strength, athleticism, piping and
dancing, Highland Games are still popular tourist attractions and
community focal points across Scotland.
But the first national study into the culturally-rich events has found
the games are closing down at an increasing rate and that organisers
are battling for their survival.
A three-year study entitled Scotlands Highland Games: Challenges in
an Ageing World, found the number of events has declined from more
than 200 in the 1940s to just 90 today.
And the rate of closure has accelerated with 25 events including the
Caithness, Beauly, Dingwall, Elgin and Stirling Highland Games
ceasing to exist in the past decade.
HAppening all over the UK
You can probably ascribe that to the increasing costs in compulsory
insurance and the need for expensive permits from local authorities
plus the protection racket of the local police who will object unless
they get a cut of the proceeds
20.11.2011 - 12:28
On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tartans,
writing in 1829, the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tartan
"setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recent
origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century when
certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders,
etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distinguish
the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, who
held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named after
Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personages,
etc.
The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britain
was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot
containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
Stirlingshire. The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all of
Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,
which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. By the
18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is known
that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dressed
in a robe of tartan.
According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style of
kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
"is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland as
well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use of
it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
northern Low Countries also." As the Scots began to venture overseas,
the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is known
to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tartans,
writing in 1829, the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tartan
"setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recent
origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century when
certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders,
etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distinguish
the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, who
held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named after
Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personages,
etc.
The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britain
was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot
containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
Stirlingshire. The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all of
Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,
which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. By the
18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is known
that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dressed
in a robe of tartan.
According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style of
kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
"is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland as
well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use of
it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
northern Low Countries also." As the Scots began to venture overseas,
the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is known
to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
20.11.2011 - 12:58
On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
> culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
> the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
> Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tartans,
writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tartan
"setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recent
origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century when
certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders,
etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distinguish
the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, who
held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named after
Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personages,
etc.
The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britain
was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot
containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all of
Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,
which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. 0By the
18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is known
that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dressed
in a robe of tartan.
According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style of
kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
"is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland as
well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use of
it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture overseas,
the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is known
to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
What does Null DYS 439 signify?
wrote:
On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
> culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
> the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
> Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tartans,
writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tartan
"setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recent
origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century when
certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders,
etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distinguish
the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, who
held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named after
Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personages,
etc.
The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britain
was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot
containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all of
Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,
which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. 0By the
18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is known
that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dressed
in a robe of tartan.
According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style of
kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
"is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland as
well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use of
it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture overseas,
the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is known
to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
What does Null DYS 439 signify?
20.11.2011 - 15:44
On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
> > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
> > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
> > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tartans,
> writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tartan
> "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recent
> origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century when
> certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders,
> etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distinguish
> the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, who
> held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named after
> Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personages,
> etc.
> The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britain
> was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot
> containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all o=
f
> Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,
> which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. 0By th=
e
> 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
> basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is known
> that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
> Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dressed
> in a robe of tartan.
> According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style of
> kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland as
> well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use of
> it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
> northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture overseas=
,
> the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is known
> to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
"null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"
or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last
5000 years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also known
as "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b according
to the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
> > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
> > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
> > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tartans,
> writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tartan
> "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recent
> origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century when
> certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders,
> etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distinguish
> the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, who
> held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named after
> Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personages,
> etc.
> The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britain
> was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot
> containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all o=
f
> Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,
> which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. 0By th=
e
> 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
> basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is known
> that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
> Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dressed
> in a robe of tartan.
> According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style of
> kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland as
> well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use of
> it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
> northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture overseas=
,
> the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is known
> to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
"null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"
or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last
5000 years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also known
as "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b according
to the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
20.11.2011 - 15:47
On Nov 20, 2:440pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotc=
h"
> > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman an=
d
> > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevo=
r-
> > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tartans=
,
> > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tartan
> > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recent
> > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century when
> > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders,
> > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distinguish
> > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, wh=
o
> > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named afte=
r
> > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personages,
> > etc.
> > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britain
> > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot
> > containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all=
of
> > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,
> > which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. 0By =
the
> > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
> > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is know=
n
> > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
> > Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dressed
> > in a robe of tartan.
> > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style o=
f
> > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland a=
s
> > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use o=
f
> > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
> > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture overse=
as,
> > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is know=
n
> > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
"null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"
or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last
5000 years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also known
as "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b according
to the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
Thanks for that. I knew you would know..
wrote:
On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotc=
h"
> > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman an=
d
> > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevo=
r-
> > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tartans=
,
> > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tartan
> > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recent
> > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century when
> > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders,
> > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distinguish
> > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, wh=
o
> > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named afte=
r
> > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personages,
> > etc.
> > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britain
> > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot
> > containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all=
of
> > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,
> > which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. 0By =
the
> > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
> > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is know=
n
> > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
> > Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dressed
> > in a robe of tartan.
> > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style o=
f
> > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland a=
s
> > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use o=
f
> > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
> > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture overse=
as,
> > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is know=
n
> > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
"null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"
or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last
5000 years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also known
as "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b according
to the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
Thanks for that. I knew you would know..
20.11.2011 - 16:04
On Nov 20, 8:470am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 20, 2:440pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.co=
m>
> > wrote:
> > > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Sco=
tch"
> > > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman =
and
> > > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Tre=
vor-
> > > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tarta=
ns,
> > > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> > > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tart=
an
> > > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> > > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recen=
t
> > > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century wh=
en
> > > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> > > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders=
,
> > > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> > > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> > > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distingui=
sh
> > > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> > > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, =
who
> > > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> > > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named af=
ter
> > > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personage=
s,
> > > etc.
> > > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britai=
n
> > > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay po=
t
> > > containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> > > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in a=
ll of
> > > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria=
,
> > > which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. 0B=
y the
> > > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scal=
e
> > > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> > > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is kn=
own
> > > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> > > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
> > > Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dresse=
d
> > > in a robe of tartan.
> > > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style=
of
> > > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> > > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland=
as
> > > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> > > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use=
of
> > > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of ou=
r
> > > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture over=
seas,
> > > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is kn=
own
> > > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> > What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> "null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
> a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"
> or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
> null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last
> 5000 years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also known
> as "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b according
> to the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
Thanks for that. I knew you would know..- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Actually I didn't, just googled it ;-)
On Nov 20, 2:440pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.co=
m>
> > wrote:
> > > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Sco=
tch"
> > > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman =
and
> > > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Tre=
vor-
> > > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tarta=
ns,
> > > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> > > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tart=
an
> > > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> > > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recen=
t
> > > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century wh=
en
> > > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> > > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders=
,
> > > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> > > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> > > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distingui=
sh
> > > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> > > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, =
who
> > > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> > > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named af=
ter
> > > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personage=
s,
> > > etc.
> > > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britai=
n
> > > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay po=
t
> > > containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> > > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in a=
ll of
> > > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria=
,
> > > which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. 0B=
y the
> > > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scal=
e
> > > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> > > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is kn=
own
> > > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> > > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
> > > Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dresse=
d
> > > in a robe of tartan.
> > > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style=
of
> > > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> > > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland=
as
> > > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> > > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use=
of
> > > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of ou=
r
> > > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture over=
seas,
> > > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is kn=
own
> > > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> > What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> "null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
> a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"
> or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
> null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last
> 5000 years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also known
> as "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b according
> to the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
Thanks for that. I knew you would know..- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Actually I didn't, just googled it ;-)
20.11.2011 - 16:18
On Nov 20, 8:470am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 20, 2:440pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.co=
m>
> > wrote:
> > > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Sco=
tch"
> > > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman =
and
> > > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Tre=
vor-
> > > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tarta=
ns,
> > > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> > > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tart=
an
> > > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> > > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recen=
t
> > > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century wh=
en
> > > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> > > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders=
,
> > > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> > > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> > > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distingui=
sh
> > > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> > > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, =
who
> > > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> > > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named af=
ter
> > > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personage=
s,
> > > etc.
> > > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britai=
n
> > > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay po=
t
> > > containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> > > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in a=
ll of
> > > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria=
,
> > > which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. 0B=
y the
> > > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scal=
e
> > > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> > > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is kn=
own
> > > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> > > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
> > > Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dresse=
d
> > > in a robe of tartan.
> > > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style=
of
> > > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> > > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland=
as
> > > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> > > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use=
of
> > > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of ou=
r
> > > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture over=
seas,
> > > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is kn=
own
> > > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> > What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> "null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
> a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"
> or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
> null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last
> 5000 years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also known
> as "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b according
> to the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
Thanks for that. I knew you would know..- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
By the way, as a Fraser, you might find this to be interesting in
regard to a possible origin of the Fraser tartan.
An entry in the 1819 Key Pattern Book of William Wilsons of
Bannockburn (weavers) reads "To make the band or musicians Plaids you
have only to put Scarlet in place of the Black in the Sergts Plaids."
The resulting tartan looked like this: http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tar=
tanDetails.aspx?refD278
Compare this with Wilson's 1820 Pattern Fraser tartan:
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?refD1249
And the more so-called "Fraser Highlanders" tartan worn by modern-day
reenactors as a hypothisised reconstruction of what the original
Fraser Highlanders might have worn as their regimental tartan.
My theory is that the original Fraser Highlander's regiment wore the
Government tartan bandsman's plaid with "Scarlet in place of the Black
in the Sergts Plaids" as per Wilson's note's and this was the basis of
the Fraser tartan.
The more common Fraser "clan tartan" http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tarta=
nDetails.aspx?refD1247
which was designed by the Sobieski-Stuart brothers was based on the
aforementioned government bandsman's tartan which was the Black Watch
tartan with red in place of the black.
On Nov 20, 2:440pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.co=
m>
> > wrote:
> > > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Sco=
tch"
> > > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman =
and
> > > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Tre=
vor-
> > > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tarta=
ns,
> > > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> > > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tart=
an
> > > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> > > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recen=
t
> > > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century wh=
en
> > > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> > > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders=
,
> > > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> > > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> > > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distingui=
sh
> > > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> > > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, =
who
> > > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> > > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named af=
ter
> > > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personage=
s,
> > > etc.
> > > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britai=
n
> > > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay po=
t
> > > containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> > > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in a=
ll of
> > > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria=
,
> > > which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. 0B=
y the
> > > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scal=
e
> > > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> > > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is kn=
own
> > > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> > > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
> > > Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dresse=
d
> > > in a robe of tartan.
> > > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style=
of
> > > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> > > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland=
as
> > > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> > > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use=
of
> > > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of ou=
r
> > > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture over=
seas,
> > > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is kn=
own
> > > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> > What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> "null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
> a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"
> or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
> null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last
> 5000 years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also known
> as "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b according
> to the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
Thanks for that. I knew you would know..- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
By the way, as a Fraser, you might find this to be interesting in
regard to a possible origin of the Fraser tartan.
An entry in the 1819 Key Pattern Book of William Wilsons of
Bannockburn (weavers) reads "To make the band or musicians Plaids you
have only to put Scarlet in place of the Black in the Sergts Plaids."
The resulting tartan looked like this: http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tar=
tanDetails.aspx?refD278
Compare this with Wilson's 1820 Pattern Fraser tartan:
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?refD1249
And the more so-called "Fraser Highlanders" tartan worn by modern-day
reenactors as a hypothisised reconstruction of what the original
Fraser Highlanders might have worn as their regimental tartan.
My theory is that the original Fraser Highlander's regiment wore the
Government tartan bandsman's plaid with "Scarlet in place of the Black
in the Sergts Plaids" as per Wilson's note's and this was the basis of
the Fraser tartan.
The more common Fraser "clan tartan" http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tarta=
nDetails.aspx?refD1247
which was designed by the Sobieski-Stuart brothers was based on the
aforementioned government bandsman's tartan which was the Black Watch
tartan with red in place of the black.
20.11.2011 - 16:31
On Nov 20, 3:180pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Nov 20, 8:470am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2:440pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.=
com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional S=
cotch"
> > > > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishma=
n and
> > > > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee T=
revor-
> > > > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > > > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tar=
tans,
> > > > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by thei=
r
> > > > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named ta=
rtan
> > > > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate=
a
> > > > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively rec=
ent
> > > > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century =
when
> > > > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottis=
h
> > > > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > > > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlande=
rs,
> > > > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Governme=
nt
> > > > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with t=
he
> > > > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to disting=
uish
> > > > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > > > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was=
a
> > > > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire=
, who
> > > > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19=
th
> > > > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > > > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > > > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named =
after
> > > > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal persona=
ges,
> > > > etc.
> > > > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Brit=
ain
> > > > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay =
pot
> > > > containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3r=
d
> > > > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > > > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in=
all of
> > > > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > > > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austr=
ia,
> > > > which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. =
0By the
> > > > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-sc=
ale
> > > > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > > > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to t=
he
> > > > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is =
known
> > > > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders w=
ho
> > > > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
> > > > Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dres=
sed
> > > > in a robe of tartan.
> > > > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the sty=
le of
> > > > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish atti=
re
> > > > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowla=
nd as
> > > > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > > > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it w=
as
> > > > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the u=
se of
> > > > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of =
our
> > > > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture ov=
erseas,
> > > > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is =
known
> > > > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > > > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> > > What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > "null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
> > a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1=
"
> > or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
> > null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last
> > 5000 years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also known
> > as "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b according
> > to the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
> Thanks for that. I knew you would know..- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
By the way, as a Fraser, you might find this to be interesting in
regard to a possible origin of the Fraser tartan.
An entry in the 1819 Key Pattern Book of William Wilsons of
Bannockburn (weavers) reads "To make the band or musicians Plaids you
have only to put Scarlet in place of the Black in the Sergts Plaids."
The resulting tartan looked like this:http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/ta=
rtanDetails.aspx?refD278
Compare this with Wilson's 1820 Pattern Fraser tartan:http://www.tartanre=
gister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?refD1249
And the more so-called "Fraser Highlanders" tartan worn by modern-day
reenactors as a hypothisised reconstruction of what the original
Fraser Highlanders might have worn as their regimental tartan.
My theory is that the original Fraser Highlander's regiment wore the
Government tartan bandsman's plaid with "Scarlet in place of the Black
in the Sergts Plaids" as per Wilson's note's and this was the basis of
the Fraser tartan.
The more common Fraser "clan tartan"http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tart=
anDetails.aspx?refD1247
which was designed by the Sobieski-Stuart brothers was based on the
aforementioned government bandsman's tartan which was the Black Watch
tartan with red in place of the black.
I would agree there.
wrote:
On Nov 20, 8:470am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2:440pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.=
com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional S=
cotch"
> > > > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishma=
n and
> > > > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee T=
revor-
> > > > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > > > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tar=
tans,
> > > > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by thei=
r
> > > > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named ta=
rtan
> > > > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate=
a
> > > > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively rec=
ent
> > > > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century =
when
> > > > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottis=
h
> > > > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > > > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlande=
rs,
> > > > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Governme=
nt
> > > > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with t=
he
> > > > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to disting=
uish
> > > > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > > > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was=
a
> > > > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire=
, who
> > > > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19=
th
> > > > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > > > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > > > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named =
after
> > > > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal persona=
ges,
> > > > etc.
> > > > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Brit=
ain
> > > > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay =
pot
> > > > containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3r=
d
> > > > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > > > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in=
all of
> > > > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > > > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austr=
ia,
> > > > which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. =
0By the
> > > > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-sc=
ale
> > > > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > > > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to t=
he
> > > > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is =
known
> > > > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders w=
ho
> > > > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
> > > > Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dres=
sed
> > > > in a robe of tartan.
> > > > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the sty=
le of
> > > > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish atti=
re
> > > > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowla=
nd as
> > > > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > > > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it w=
as
> > > > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the u=
se of
> > > > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of =
our
> > > > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture ov=
erseas,
> > > > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is =
known
> > > > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > > > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> > > What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > "null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
> > a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1=
"
> > or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
> > null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last
> > 5000 years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also known
> > as "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b according
> > to the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
> Thanks for that. I knew you would know..- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
By the way, as a Fraser, you might find this to be interesting in
regard to a possible origin of the Fraser tartan.
An entry in the 1819 Key Pattern Book of William Wilsons of
Bannockburn (weavers) reads "To make the band or musicians Plaids you
have only to put Scarlet in place of the Black in the Sergts Plaids."
The resulting tartan looked like this:http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/ta=
rtanDetails.aspx?refD278
Compare this with Wilson's 1820 Pattern Fraser tartan:http://www.tartanre=
gister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?refD1249
And the more so-called "Fraser Highlanders" tartan worn by modern-day
reenactors as a hypothisised reconstruction of what the original
Fraser Highlanders might have worn as their regimental tartan.
My theory is that the original Fraser Highlander's regiment wore the
Government tartan bandsman's plaid with "Scarlet in place of the Black
in the Sergts Plaids" as per Wilson's note's and this was the basis of
the Fraser tartan.
The more common Fraser "clan tartan"http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tart=
anDetails.aspx?refD1247
which was designed by the Sobieski-Stuart brothers was based on the
aforementioned government bandsman's tartan which was the Black Watch
tartan with red in place of the black.
I would agree there.
20.11.2011 - 18:30
On Nov 21, 3:440am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotc=
h"
> > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman an=
d
> > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevo=
r-
> > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tartans=
,
> > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tartan
> > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recent
> > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century when
> > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders,
> > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distinguish
> > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, wh=
o
> > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named afte=
r
> > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personages,
> > etc.
> > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britain
> > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot>=
containing more than 2000Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all=
of
> > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,>=
which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400B.C. and 100B.C. 0By the
> > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
> > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is know=
n
> > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert> > Dalr=
ymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720dressed
> > in a robe of tartan.
> > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style o=
f
> > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland a=
s
> > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use o=
f
> > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
> > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture overse=
as,
> > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is know=
n
> > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
"null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"or =
"S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last5000y=
ears. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also knownas "U106") w=
hich defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b accordingto the 2011 ISOGG Y=
0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
Wow! so you can be genetically an SNP supporter from your genes!
wrote:
On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotc=
h"
> > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman an=
d
> > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevo=
r-
> > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tartans=
,
> > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tartan
> > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recent
> > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century when
> > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders,
> > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distinguish
> > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, wh=
o
> > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named afte=
r
> > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personages,
> > etc.
> > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britain
> > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot>=
containing more than 2000Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all=
of
> > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,>=
which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400B.C. and 100B.C. 0By the
> > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
> > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is know=
n
> > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert> > Dalr=
ymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720dressed
> > in a robe of tartan.
> > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style o=
f
> > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland a=
s
> > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use o=
f
> > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
> > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture overse=
as,
> > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is know=
n
> > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
"null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"or =
"S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last5000y=
ears. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also knownas "U106") w=
hich defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b accordingto the 2011 ISOGG Y=
0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
Wow! so you can be genetically an SNP supporter from your genes!
20.11.2011 - 18:55
On Nov 20, 11:300am, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 21, 3:440am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.co=
m>
> > wrote:
> > > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Sco=
tch"
> > > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman =
and
> > > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Tre=
vor-
> > > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tarta=
ns,
> > > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> > > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tart=
an
> > > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> > > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recen=
t
> > > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century wh=
en
> > > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> > > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders=
,
> > > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> > > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> > > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distingui=
sh
> > > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> > > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, =
who
> > > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> > > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named af=
ter
> > > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personage=
s,
> > > etc.
> > > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britai=
n
> > > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay po=
t> > containing more than 2000Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> > > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in a=
ll of
> > > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria=
,> > which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400B.C. and 100B.C. 0By the
> > > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scal=
e
> > > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> > > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is kn=
own
> > > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> > > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert> > Da=
lrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720dressed
> > > in a robe of tartan.
> > > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style=
of
> > > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> > > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland=
as
> > > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> > > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use=
of
> > > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of ou=
r
> > > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture over=
seas,
> > > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is kn=
own
> > > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> > What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> "null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
> a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"o=
r "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
> null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last500=
0years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also knownas "U106")=
which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b accordingto the 2011 ISOGG=
Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
Wow! so you can be genetically an SNP supporter from your genes!- Hide qu=
oted text -
- Show quoted text -
In terms of genetics, SNP mean "single nucleotide polymorphism";
however withn the R1b haplotype, there is a genetic sub-clade known
as the "Northwest-Irish/Lowland Scottish" subclade, which many Scots
and Irish people belong to.
On Nov 21, 3:440am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 20, 5:580am, Bryn Fraser...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 11:280am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.co=
m>
> > wrote:
> > > On Nov 20, 2:410am, RH...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Sco=
tch"
> > > > culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman =
and
> > > > the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Tre=
vor-
> > > > Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
> > > For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tarta=
ns,
> > > writing in 1829, 0the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
> > > tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tart=
an
> > > "setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
> > > particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recen=
t
> > > origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century wh=
en
> > > certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
> > > military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
> > > Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders=
,
> > > etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
> > > tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
> > > addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distingui=
sh
> > > the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
> > > contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
> > > firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, =
who
> > > held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
> > > century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
> > > regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
> > > Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named af=
ter
> > > Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personage=
s,
> > > etc.
> > > The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britai=
n
> > > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay po=
t> > containing more than 2000Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
> > > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > > Stirlingshire. 0The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in a=
ll of
> > > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
> > > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria=
,> > which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400B.C. and 100B.C. 0By the
> > > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scal=
e
> > > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> > > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is kn=
own
> > > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> > > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert> > Da=
lrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720dressed
> > > in a robe of tartan.
> > > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style=
of
> > > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> > > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland=
as
> > > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> > > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use=
of
> > > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of ou=
r
> > > northern Low Countries also." 0As the Scots began to venture over=
seas,
> > > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is kn=
own
> > > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
> > What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> "null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
> a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"o=
r "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
> null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last500=
0years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also knownas "U106")=
which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b accordingto the 2011 ISOGG=
Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.
Wow! so you can be genetically an SNP supporter from your genes!- Hide qu=
oted text -
- Show quoted text -
In terms of genetics, SNP mean "single nucleotide polymorphism";
however withn the R1b haplotype, there is a genetic sub-clade known
as the "Northwest-Irish/Lowland Scottish" subclade, which many Scots
and Irish people belong to.
20.11.2011 - 19:02
On Nov 20, 10:240am, Magnus <Yourn...@your.biz> wrote:
RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote innews:edc01a9a-0646-4d2c-bce9-8ef886e37=
92a@4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com:
> Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
> culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
> the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
> Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
Presumably prancing around in a smock and waving bells and hankies around
is going from strength to strength, along with English tennis success.
And how many Championships do you see this Morris happening, compared
with the Scotch tossers?
Can you imagine the Westminster Morris Dancer competition?
RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote innews:edc01a9a-0646-4d2c-bce9-8ef886e37=
92a@4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com:
> Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
> culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
> the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
> Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
Presumably prancing around in a smock and waving bells and hankies around
is going from strength to strength, along with English tennis success.
And how many Championships do you see this Morris happening, compared
with the Scotch tossers?
Can you imagine the Westminster Morris Dancer competition?
20.11.2011 - 19:07
Interestingly enough, in genetic surname studies conducted in
Scotland, people bearing the Salmond surname, descended from John
Salmond (b. 1752 in Edinburgh) tested as belonging to the Semitic J2
haplotype; meaning that they are likely of Jewish descent.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/SalmonDNAProject/default.aspx?section=ymap
Scotland, people bearing the Salmond surname, descended from John
Salmond (b. 1752 in Edinburgh) tested as belonging to the Semitic J2
haplotype; meaning that they are likely of Jewish descent.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/SalmonDNAProject/default.aspx?section=ymap
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